[The-Real-Link]

I believe there is a reason to notate in one key over another, but I'm not sure as to what it is. I wonder if that's in my notation dictionary.

[aishi]

I have always been wondering, do any of you believe that all the keys each have a specific color, or that it doesn't make a difference if a piece is transposed into any key?

[The-Real-Link]

The different keys definately have different colors. Like say...oh... c minor and e minor. If you play a piece in e minor it sounds more sad and meloncholy. c minor is darker and has more of a twisted and dissonant flavor to it. Especially if you play it you mix the natural and melodic scales, thus playing with both Bb and B natural.

[aishi]

But what's the difference? because you can have both in melodic and natural and use the same amount of dissonance.
I'm guessing (besides it being higher or lower) its because of the way that the instruments have to play the notes. Like harp pedals or string fingerings, or even like the psychological effect of reading 8 sharps instead of 4 flats.

[The-Real-Link]

If you listen closely to the same piece played in two different keys, you will notice a difference. The key change causes a slight difference in the tonal structure of the piece. If if the pieces keep the same harmonic structure. As the scale of notes goes up and down it is impossible to keep a perfect tuning. The "Well-Tempered" tuning came into use with clavier instruments during the baroque period. Basically, notes of the keyboard instruments, and most other instruments for that matter, were tuned slighty off, but tuned in accordance to each other. This caused a nice even sound among the keys close together, but caused a slight variation as the tones got farther and farther apart. The standard tuning used now is slightly different, but this effect still holds true. If you take the lowest C on a piano and the highest C on the piano, and play them together they do not retain the 1:2 ratio of the octave. Instead, because of the slight difference in harmonic structure is causes a slight variation in the ration. I'm not sure what the absolute ratio difference is, but it's just enough to change the sound in the slightest. While it is generally not noticable by the human ear, it does still occur, and causes a tonal difference among piece played, depending on WHERE it is played in the range and key of the instrument or instruments.

[Nicol Armarfi]

The main difference, I find, revolves around texture. Certain keys force you to play a melody significantly lower or higher up than other keys, thus making the overall atmosphere of the piece either more bright, or more mellow.

[aishi]

Originally Posted by The-Real-Link

If you listen closely to the same piece played in two different keys, you will notice a difference. The key change causes a slight difference in the tonal structure of the piece. If if the pieces keep the same harmonic structure. As the scale of notes goes up and down it is impossible to keep a perfect tuning. The "Well-Tempered" tuning came into use with clavier instruments during the baroque period. Basically, notes of the keyboard instruments, and most other instruments for that matter, were tuned slighty off, but tuned in accordance to each other. This caused a nice even sound among the keys close together, but caused a slight variation as the tones got farther and farther apart. The standard tuning used now is slightly different, but this effect still holds true. If you take the lowest C on a piano and the highest C on the piano, and play them together they do not retain the 1:2 ratio of the octave. Instead, because of the slight difference in harmonic structure is causes a slight variation in the ration. I'm not sure what the absolute ratio difference is, but it's just enough to change the sound in the slightest. While it is generally not noticable by the human ear, it does still occur, and causes a tonal difference among piece played, depending on WHERE it is played in the range and key of the instrument or instruments.

I agree that it may have an ever so slight effect now that "well-tempered" tuning isn't used anymore, but then you have to consider that that's making the assumption that every piano is tuned pretty much perfectly the same including every other instrument in the orchestra to the piano, and weather effects on the instruments not causing the instruments to go out of tune.
Although sometimes, non-fixed-note players will consciously slightly lower or raise notes when they play. Could this alter one key's tuning enough to become similar to the relative spacing of another key?

The placing of the melody in relation to the register of the texture does seem like a very good explanation though.

[MelloSinfonian]

Wow, you guys are getting deep. I like it! Regarding the original topic, I tend to use the original key for arrangements, at least in the initial transcription, as Nicol mentioned (when working from a recording). Then I might shift the key up or down depending on the needs of the ensemble. I arranged Sweet Home Alabama for a high school marching band last year, which was originally in D, so I bumped it up a half step to Eb to make it more band-friendly. If at all possible, I like using the original key, though that's made things difficult a few times (such as giving my community band a piece in concert E). On that note (pun slightly intended), E is one of my favorite keys, especially if I'm playing piano.

One thing that's occurred to me to wonder regarding tuning is how the piano relates to other instruments. One would think that the equal temperament of the piano would clash with the rest of virtually any ensemble, given that many other instruments can adjust individual notes chords (I kick out my 1st and 3rd valve slides on a lot of notes on trumpet, or use alternate fingerings). If I remember correctly, the 3rd of a chord is usually x amount of cents sharp, and the 5th is y amount of cents flat. Of course, if you get into jazz, 7ths also have tendencies, etc. My point is that we never seem to hear the difference, or mention this. When a piano accompanies a vocalist, or instrumentalist, or plays with a band/orchestra, the tuning issue never seems to come up. I'm not really proposing anything or making much of a statement, just thinking out loud, really. Has this occurred to anybody else?

[aishi]

Originally Posted by MelloSinfonian

When a piano accompanies a vocalist, or instrumentalist, or plays with a band/orchestra, the tuning issue never seems to come up. I'm not really proposing anything or making much of a statement, just thinking out loud, really. Has this occurred to anybody else?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, that the tuning isn't all that significance if its off or on by only few cents. In an orchestra its pretty much impossible to tune perfectly to the tuning note even if each person went around and tuned individually. But after the concert, teachers and professional musicians won't criticize over x or y cents of the tuning, unless its noticeably off. I wonder where exactly is the point that a note becomes noticeably out of tune....

[The-Real-Link]

@Aishi: The reason that I mention the tuning issues was because no matter how an instrument is tuned, even if it's out of tune, there will always be a slight difference in notes of the same pitch depending on where they fall in a register. Thus higher notes will be slightly off from lower notes of the same pitch. As I said, it is generally inaudible to the untrained human ear. Nicol is right, the register of the notes causes a color difference. Changing the key can also slightly change the structure because even though the intervals are the same, the notes that play them are different. It causes a noticable change that effects the listener. It can cause an emotional change to the music.


@Mello: The reason that the piano doesn't usually have a problem blending with other instruments is because all the instruments are tuned together. Piano are generally tuned to A-440, which is now considered the standard tuning. In an orchestra, the piano is already tuned to A-440. All the other instruments will tune to the English Horn. The English Horn will set the tuning note and the other instruments will tune to it. This is the "noise" that you hear before an orchestral performance. Because the piano is already tuned everything else will be close enough to blend with it. The instruments of the orchestra will not be tuned perfectly to each other which is actually good. The slight difference in tuning gives a rich and full texture to the piece being played. This also lends to the fact that music is better when heard live, because recording equipment can't pick up all of the variances.

If I'm wrong on any of this, please correct me. I don't have very much ensemble experiance. I'm just trying to recall what I've read in numorous books on the subject. Here's some snippets from Rimsky Korsakov's Treatise on Orchestration that might shed some light on the topic.

"There are times when the general tone, character and atmosphere of a passage, or a given moment in an orchestral work point to one, and only one particular manner of scoring. The following simple example will serve for explanation. Take a short phrase where a flourish or fanfare call is given out above a tremolando accompaniment, with or without change in harmony. There is no doubt that any orchestrator would assign the tremolo to the strings and the fanfare to a trumpet, never vice versa. But taking this for granted, the composer or orchestrator may still be left in doubt. Is the fanfare flourish suitable to the range of a trumpet? Should it be written for two or three trumpets in unison, or doubled by other instruments? Can any of these methods be employed without damaging the musical meaning? These are questions which I shall endeavor to answer...... The aim of a composer is closely allied to the form of his work, to the aesthetic meaning of its every moment and phrase considered apart, and in relation to the composition as a whole. The choice of an orchestral scheme depends on the musical matter, the coloring of preceding and subsequent passages. It is important to determine whether a given passage is a complement to or a contrast with what goes before and comes after, whether it forms a climax or merely a step in the general march of musical thought."